Maxwell Murray: Welcome back to the Radian Podcast. Your go to source for digital product focused discussions on design, technology and digital health advancements. I'm Maxwell Murray, your host and I hope today's episode inspires your next big idea. In this episode,

Talal Ali Ahmad: we're dealing with patient post surgery. So they're in pain, they're uncomfortable. You cannot just create a technology is gonna make them answer questions and enter data. So we have to listen to the user first. What's the condition they're using that the platform under?

Maxwell Murray: Hi Talal. I wanna thank you for, for joining us on the podcast here. Everyone. We have Talal Ali Ahmad, founder and CEO of Predictive Healthcare joining us today on the Radian Podcast and we're gonna talk to you about post surgery care and an amazing application that he and his team is building called My Health Pal.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Hi, Max. Thanks for having me and giving me the time for this lovely broadcast.

Maxwell Murray: So, you know, there's a quite a bit of buzz at all times surrounding artificial intelligence A I and all of that and you have a, a digital product that leverages A I. And I just want you to kind of to tell us about Predictive Healthcare. What was the, the inspiration behind this application? What does it do?

Talal Ali Ahmad: Well, thanks for the time again. And you started on the right point by saying we use A I to leverage post surgery, digital health because A I is a technology which we use to help us make the product M yHealthPal. So let me take you back to the company, Predictive Health Care. It's a Mass Massachusetts based start up company. We started two years ago, what we're building and we built so far is a platform. We monitor post operative surgical incision to predict early sign of infection and alert the clinician to intervene at early stage before becoming chronic issue to cut down readmission and u necessary office visit or emergency room visit. So the product is called MyHealthPal. It's an, an A I based algorithm that's monitor surgical incision using the the patient's smartphone device. And also they, we collect vital signs data to come up with the prediction for the clinician.

Maxwell Murray: So I want to unpack that it's not only the visual detection of the the surgical wound as it healed, it's paired with data entry implying like this adherence to the care plan from the patient and clinicians watching out. And then there's is there some type of like numbers driven quantitative. Hey, these vital signs are moving in this direction we're predicting XYZ.

Talal Ali Ahmad: So so for one disclaimer, I'm not a doctor. So all the information I'm giving you is based on my discussion with the, with the surgeon and clinician about that the product has a two part, one is visual. Like you said, the patient will take a picture of the surgical incision based on the schedule set by the by the clinician could be every day, every other day. We analyze the image first and we look for sign of any sign of an elevated risk of infection could be redness could be discharged, whatever based on on on the wound. And the second part is we take, we collect data from the patient on the vital signs and other key points. For example, body temperature, pain level, if they have any nausea or the wound is warm to the touch plus me medication adherence. We take all this data to help to assist the the the clinician to make a decision end of the day. Because if you look at the image, you may see a sign of something boiling on the image, something you need to be addressed right away. And sometimes the image looks like everything is normal. But the data like the patient reporting for high fever, high pain level, the wound is warm to the touch that means something is happening. So we provide that data to the clinician in order to make the decision and, and what we're working on right now is trying to take both images and data to correlate the data together and come up with one predictive outcome for the clinician.

Maxwell Murray: Wow. So it's visual detection and data that drives, you know, better care for the, the patient. And when I love you saying over and over while you're not a physician, you're listening deeply to this audience. And that's one thing that I, I wanna underscore, you know, I, I default to think about patients very carefully. Recently, I've made more visits to health care providers than normal. I guess that comes with adding years to, to one's life. But I'm starting to also recognize how overwhelming that perspective can be. And, and, and trying to increase empathy for, for people in that space. So it's good to hear you say we're talking to clinicians. We're trying to figure out how we can make this complicated process less complicated.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Exactly. I mean, in any any technology provide. So the technology has to work for the user, not the other way around. So we have to listen to the user first. What's the, who's the user? What's the condition they're using the, the platform under? So we're dealing with patient post surgery. So they're in pain, they're uncomfortable, you cannot sit down and just create a technology that's gonna make them sit for half an hour, answer questions and enter data. It has to be based on the situation you're in pain, you're uncomfortable, you probably, you, you're gonna give us a minute to answer a few questions. And the same thing for the clinician, they're busy. They're between surgery or between patient, they're not gonna sit and go through a screen of after screen to look at what we're sending them. And that's the key is talk to the user, understand the user situation and the condition then create an application based on that.

Maxwell Murray: This dovetails into something nicely that II I wanna touch on because one thing that I'm often curious about is interoperability that bridge between these amazing digital product solutions like yours or on the horizon and moving things in the right direction. But if it's done in the absence of actually connecting to the current system, those core systems like EMRs- E HRs, you know, again, clinicians need that data in the right place. How do you streamline and make that connection? Can you, can you talk to us about integration with current systems and and MyHealthPal?

Talal Ali Ahmad: So based on my previous experience with MedTech, so I under I understand you cannot have multiple systems for the user to use. And and we're talking here on the clinician, you cannot ask the clinician enter data here and see the results here or when you want to see what's going on, you have to look at the screen all the time. So we made a decision from day one to be HIPAA a compliant and address all the HIPAA compliant standard in our platform. The second thing is when we have that is integrate with the EMR system. That's a must because we want to have a seamless flow between our data, both directions and the E MR So we are we integrated with the Epic. We are on Epic marketplace right now. My Health P al is on a epic marketplace we tested so we're ready, ready for that. My H ealth Pal is a three modules, one mobile app for the user, one for the patient, one mobile app for the clinician and a dashboard for the clinician. So the clinician has two options to look at the data. When we select the the clinician, select the patient to use the app, we create the user on the app and we have a profile of the patient. So and then we use that data when patients submitted their pictures, the vital signs, we alert, we send an alert to the clinician on their phone or the or the dashboard and we can push the result directly to Epic. So we don't want the they made decision from day one. We don't want the the clinician to enter, go log in on MyHealthPal and enter data. And then when they receive a result or elevated or alert, go back to Epic and enter what we, what they saw in there. So we have a seamless connection between the two. We pull data from Epic to create the account and then we push back the data to Epic and we push it in two ways. One is field by field or we can create , what will l ook like a lab report, they can upload it to Epic and they can look at it at all time. So we make it so flexible. So we're not tied up to one system only. And, and this is based on feedback from the doctor, what they wanna see when they get the alert, they want to see the image, they wanna see any data and then they wanna print it or send it to Epic. It's up to them and everything is going smoothly between Epic and our platform. I mean, we started with Epic because Epic is right now is kind of everybody talk about it and everybody, most people, most hospitals use Epic. But if we are looking at integrating other EMR and EHR systems also.

Maxwell Murray: All right, you beat me to my question.

Talal Ali Ahmad: So there's a yeah, no, the road map is full other Emre hr system because the product is meant to our target customer hospitals, surgical centers, wound care facility and school nurse facility. And there's different EMR E HR used by different depends on this kind of the the hospital surgical center. So we have to be available for a different platform.

Maxwell Murray: You know, last time we, you and I chatted in person, you're sharing some exciting news and some, some new spaces where there's more activity surrounding using the application and there's some clinical studies that are, that are active right now. Can you tell us about those and, and talk to us about how you, you got them in position in the first place and, and where they're at now.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Yeah. So the first one, we, when we did the first pilot with, with the Global Smile Foundation, the Boston based NGO, they travel outside the US to do cleft lip and cleft palate surgeries that they, we used, they were our first pilot outside the US and they use it for almost a year and now we convert them to a customer as part of their standard of care right now when they travel outside the US. So that's kind of the given back. They, they, they were nice and flexible as to the pilot. So we gave back and say, hey, if you, you see, you see value in it must well use it on your mission. So they're actually using, they have a 300 plus patients on the platform. In the meantime, because of the US based the Global Small has a US based surgeon travel with them. So that's when the buzz was created. Like we start meeting surgeon, we're doing this I can take a look at it closer for my clinic. And that's when we met our different clinician and surgeon from Tufts Medical Center, which he heard about the application, he's involved with the Global Smile at some level. And we agreed like, hey, maybe we can give it a try in our clinic. And they agree because today post surgery, the clinician flying blind, they have no visibility on the patient recovery or the wound recovery. And with little heart, the whole thing, they know if the patient calls on time, say, hey, I think there's something wrong. Can I come in? But most of the time, it's because patients in pain, uncomfortable, they call, they call the last minute and the doctor, most of the time say you need to come in or you need to go to the emergency room. So they need something to connect to the patient in the recovery period. And that's what the value Tufts medical center and Dr HSI is who is the, the the primary surgeon is gonna use that with us on for pilots actually starting this month. So we're recruiting patients as we speak for the pilot. And on the other way, Mass General, we're doing the second pilot of Mass General Mass General kind of we a we approach them, we approach the Innovation Innovation Center at Mass General and they were kind enough to see the value what we're presenting and they put us in touch with the surgeon in the cardiology department. Say they make the introduction, they, they look at it and thought, hey, this, this is a value here. We can use to connect to the patient and we'll be doing pilot with Mass General for the pacemaker implant surgery patient. So the patient goes home, they wanna monitor the patient during that period and it varies because at Tufts Medical Center, they be doing plast breast reconstruction for cancer patient. That's what we'll be using the app with where Met general use it for pacemaker implant surgery and the two different surgery. But they both have the same same requirement. We need to monitor the patient during that process. After surgery, we need be connected, we need to know early enough what's going on with the patient before it becomes an issue. And we see him in the emergency room.

Maxwell Murray: This has profound implications. Thank you for sharing about the trials and in your progress, the are, you know, from the the more philanthropic to the here at home angle? All very interesting. But now I'm gonna make it about me. OK? II I just when you said, you know, the experience for the patient kind of becomes this thing where they let things get a little rough, more painful and more of a state of emergency and they end up in the emergency room. It's been years since I've been to an emergency room, but I recently had to go to one, thankfully nothing, you know, catastrophic issue resolved. But the, the bills are coming in and I'm looking at the numbers and I'm like, wait a minute, like, you know, imagine for people that, imagine what it's like for people to experience these things frequently because they have a much more severe condition than anything that I'm dealing with. And this is a regular occurrence that was kind of like a moment where I had to step back and, and recognize when we talk about all of these things, there are people really going through a lot on both sides, the, the the table, the patient of course, and the clinician that's trying to juggle all these things. And the, you know, the patient who, you know, this is their fourth visit to a facility in a very short span of time and they're taking time off work and they're worried about their bill. This is not just cool. Oh, we're, we built an A I solution and, you know, all punch numbers in. It's fun to play with application. This is something that's supposed to better our quality of life and improve our, our experience as patients and, and clinicians. So I just want to underscore that.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Post op surgery recovery is very critical. I mean, it costs, let's put it in perspective, it costs the US healthcare system by itself from a necessary emergency room and visit $3.3 billion a year. That's from the visit. We're not. And that's most of the time the hospital has to eat that cost. Because after surgery, the global payment cover your visit to the emergency room. The 1st 30 days or 60 days depends on that. So when I go to the emergency room and, and then I discharged after that, the cost of me coming to the emergency room, forget my insurance copay and all this stuff. The hospital has to eat that cost because it's part of the global payment. So the hospital at, at the hook on that, it's not like they're gonna recover from the pair at the same time for patient. I mean, none of us lives five minutes walking away from the emergency room, we all live like 20 minutes, 30 minutes that with no traffic, give the Boston area, it's gonna take an hour to get there. You get there, they're busy by the time you see the doctors like, and they do the test, it's gone six hours and most of the time it's like, ok, we see what's going on. There's no need to be here. You can go back home and take this medication or do this and follow these steps. So it both sides for the hospitals. There's the resources When you come into the emergency room, when you don't need to, there's a financial loss and for the patient, it's the quality of care coming. You might catch something coming to emergency room too. There's a risk of coming, coming to the emergency room and catch a virus or, or you get infected with the wound. So we're trying to improve the financial side from the hospitals, eliminate them and, and cut down on resources need for that visit and the same time improve the healthcare outcome for the patient. And this is why connecting using A I to leverage that what we build to connect the patient to the doctor address it. I mean, it doesn't mean our my help val is going to prevent all the visit to emergency room. The doctor might say, ok, something going on, I need to see you. But if they catch it early, they can address the issue early before it become a major problem. And that's what the value proposition for M yHealthPal detect early sign of infection. Early alert the clinician address it early before becoming chronic issue. And that's the value process. If we, if M y HealthPal [is] catching stuff when inflame, then there's so many issues and we're not doing our job. We need to catch it way early to intervene way early before it become a major issue for, for the clinician and for the hospital and then for the patient.

Maxwell Murray: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it's like this A I powered telemetry tool that is outfitted to improve patient experience and reduce cost. That's what I, I just heard. The other thing I want to bring up is I know we both live in the Boston area. That emergency room description minus the catching a virus thing. That was literally in my experience, I’ll be looking over my shoulder to see if you're, you're observing me as a patient case study.

Talal Ali Ahmad: I hope nobody goes to emergency room, but at least once in a lifetime and I have kids, I've been to the men's room so many times and I, I don't want to be there. I don't, I mean, it's, it's not a place you want to spend your day there.

Maxwell Murray: Yeah. Yeah, you, you, you want to be there when you need it. But to your point with all the inefficiencies and the, you know, substandard things that take place. Sometimes when we, we try to receive care, these are the type of tools we need to be building to, to reduce and, and the problems and, and improve wherever we can. I, I continue to, to dive into, to user oriented stuff because you know, help our audience understand how to build products like the one that you're, you're building. And, and how do you approach these, these daunting tasks and user stories that may arise. Can you, can you talk to us about your early stage user experience design, how your team explored that? What methods you use to, to gather information in order to build your application the right way. And as you look forward, how will you continue to enrich user experience for, for those using the platform?

Talal Ali Ahmad: We so the experience like our approach was a little bit different because we're dealing with post outpatient. It's not like you can ask someone. Do you remember when you had a surgery? How did you feel? So we didn't have this luxury. So we started with the clinician first say, what information you need and how do you like it to be presented to you? So that's what we start. We talked to a lot of surgeons and nurse practitioner and a clinician about like what they want to see. How did the data and how much time they want to spend on the screen. And we start from that and then we ask them, what kind of data the patient do you think he can send? And they say, well, picture would be great because picture can say 1000 words and then the vital signs. So we build the application and the the the user's feedback, the patient's feedback, we get it from during the pilot phase. Not before the development. We, we assume a lot of stuff because we deal with a, with a surgical patient unless you ask a surgical post op patient and usually not gonna get the answer because in pain and uncomfortable, they're not gonna sit down and answer a question about building an application. So during the pilot, when we deploy the first pilot of the Global Smile, that's when we get a lot of feedback. And we also ask a lot of questions from the patient. Hey, how do you like a data, the data entry? Is it the, is it the right format for you? It's easy to enter it. It's easy to understand the same thing. The picture I can give you. For example, when we first did the pilot, we asked patients to take a picture of the wound. We get so many selfies like someone like proposing on social media, we were like, OK, and we can't detect the wound very well. So we had to OK. Well, we can't detect anything. Applications are working. We find out we look at the images, their self is somebody trying to post and trying to take a picture and like we can, we can't do this. So we went back and say, OK, we need to add something to the to to the the software. And that's we come up with the image acquisition algorithm where we ask the patient to put the camera at the phone at the wound. And we, we auto detect the wound and we ask him to adjust the the camera. It's similar what you have today with the mobile deposit for your check, you put the check, they closer with the exact same thing. But for us is we focusing on the on the wound itself at the angle and we auto adjust the lighting too. So we make sure the image always clear. And then that's, that's the feedback we get real in real time from the patient and went back to the drawing board and said we need to implement this and the same thing with the data entry numbers or scrolling bar or sliders. A lot of people like that slider is easy for me, I can put it and slide it and move on instead of trying to scroll up and down numbers. So the, the the patient side was the hardest one because we had to wait until the users are using the app. Then we get a lot of feedback on the surgeons side. They've seen a lot of app, they've been using their phone, different app. So they were like, hey, I can show you this app. They're, they're not your competitors, the app but like see how they did the interface. So they were sharing with us ideas, which was great. I mean, for me is I, I love ui/ux people. But sometimes if somebody, if an application being used and everybody love it might as well don't, don't introduce something new to the user if they all use this model. So that's where we start looking. The doctor used to use it this way. Let's keep them the same way. Unless we found a major flaws in it, we try to convince them. But we end up using the same kind of process they use today implemented. So they don't have to relearn new things. And for the patient, we end up learning on on the field.

Maxwell Murray: when we're building digital products in the in the health care space, we have to remember that. As you said, physicians are experiencing world class apps in various verticals and industry and parts of their life from watching videos with their family to storing their family photos, to uploading their personal docs and managing their personal docs and patients are ordering something from Amazon and it arrives the next day and it's convenient. There's a photograph of the package placed where they said they wanted it to be placed and they could cancel the order and change their order or you know, you land at an airport in California and you're on a trip and you know, you can count on Uber and Lyft to give you an experience that will take you where you wanna go and hold the people that are working with you and transporting you accountable and, and all these like layers. You said, something profound. We have to look beyond just our space and listen to our users when they tell us, hey, I'm used to an experience like this. Hey, a pattern of a U A user journey like ABC D makes a lot of sense to me because I've seen it elsewhere or professionally. You know, I know that Epic orders these fields at my, my organization in this way, can the app do that because other apps are out of order and doesn't work or it just breaks my workflow? That's, that's very important.

Talal Ali Ahmad: The key for us is you need to make the technology works for the user. Not the other way around. If the user is gonna spend time to learn and do things and trying to make the application work is we're not providing any, any value or anything. We need the application technology to work for the user, not the other way around. So and and you're in, you're in the medical technology field. You understand, the doctors, they always work by three or four clicks. If they don't get anything after the third click, they move on to the next one. I'm not hope I'm not offending anybody. But if that's the nature of the work they need to undergo, they will look at things and click click, move on for engineer like me, if it doesn't work, I can spend extra 10 minutes discovering why it's not working and make it work but for doctor no, it doesn't work. Move on next one. So that's the key on that note.

Maxwell Murray: How are you achieving that 3 to 4 click experience with physicians? I know you started with them as that core user to help you nail down the initial application. What's the ongoing engagement with physicians and clinicians. How's, how's that work? What's your game plan to, to stay on top of their user needs going forward?

Talal Ali Ahmad: So we, we still, I mean, we, we never stopped communicating with the clinician and the surgeon because it's their workload is changing and the data they wanna look at it is different. Also, they have a system of a flow, they have to follow in the hospital. So for them is like when we started, we send an alert to the phone, they will open, they get the alert on the phone. They look at, look at it and then move on. What we did by talking to them is we put the elevated risk alert first. So we'll come up on the screen first always. And then what we, what we what the algorithm attack normal standard risk will be in the bottom. So the doctor is like when they get alert, open up, they see the first, maybe the one, the first three was high, high level or elevated risk. They click on them, they have the picture and the data in one screen. So they have everything in front of them on one click and they can say agree or disagree and write a note right now with the pilot. We'll keep, we are keeping the communication between the doctor and the patient through Epic through the the the standard or the flow they have today. Eventually we can push data communicating formal application to Epic to talk to the patient too. So, and that's something we we are, we are walking before we're running. We're trying to make sure the usability is good. The the doctor is getting the right data. It makes sense before start the next level, which is the next step is the communication with the patient.

Maxwell Murray: I've got a few more questions for you. I'm gonna, I'm gonna remix one because I think there's a wider audience for it. I think you sit in an interesting position in experiencing creating medical technology to be sold into the health care provider s pace. Part of my question is advice to your peers, fellow innovators. What have you learned recently in your experience as you, you're building this company the right way to position yourself to, to be heard and engaged with by health care providers and part two. What would you say to health care providers in the space of help, helping to foster innovation and create a space for companies like yours to, to grow?

Talal Ali Ahmad: Yeah. So that's a great question. So for my fellow founders starting in the medical field, it is a long, long sale cycle. So it's not something it's gonna be selling within 30 days after you finish. So you have to be patient, you have to educate your customers about what you're building and showing the value proposition in your product. Because if today there's so many digital health application. It's not meant for everybody and you see people using it, some doctor using some don't use it because one sector or one section, they see the value on this digital application. They don't see the value in mind because it's not in the same field. So you have to listen, you have to talk to the surgeon, the users and are are you actually solving problem and helping them or just solving problem is not gonna help them? Give like for example, if I tell the doctor, I'm gonna send you 10 images a day for the wound and all the data to to take a look at it. It's not gonna work because they already overloaded. I have to make a sense out of the data for them. I have to show in the value that I'm sending. Anybody can send a picture to the doctor. But image quality is important. So that's why we we spend a lot of time making image acquisition. Image equality is a priority because without a good image, the doctor is not able to see anything and that's it's part of it. We delivering, we're delivering on the value proposition. You're gonna see a clear image, you can see that makes sense. So you can act on it. We're not diagnosing the wound. We're just providing you with a, with a clean data and a snapshot of the patient's status. So you can act or make a decision on it. So that's the critical thing is it's not just solving the problem but also providing value for the user.

Maxwell Murray: People often ask. So what's in it for me, whether they do it or subconsciously?

Talal Ali Ahmad: Yeah, I mean, you can find a friend surgeon, a doctor to use your app and say good thing about it. But if it's not going to solve a problem, it's not gonna help them, it's not gonna go anywhere. I mean, you need people to really say I can use this. It helps me cut down two hours of my day from follow up on patient for one hour or prevent me prevent 20% of my patient to go to emergency room when they don't need to. So that's the value proposition we provide and that's what the doctor needs to see and which could bring us to the second phase of the question is the healthcare provider is they have to look at it. We're not this when we approach them or another digital health company or another A I technology, we'll ask him to look deeper than that. Give it, give the start up a chance to explain what's going on. What's a valuable proposition and give him feedback. Maybe it's not for, for them but say, hey, we don't do a lot of surgeries or we already have a platform, we can do this for us, but we have a gap in this area. Can you help us in this. It's a both way communication like I'm presenting this to you, tell me what's not working and what works for you. And, and II, I can feel the pain of the health care system because I'm sure they get bombarded every day with a lot of start up and new ideas. They have innovation centers which they homegrown their own innovation, but also they have to keep the door open also for outside because hospitals and big company move slow start up company. That's why they, people look at them because they can move fast, they can be creative and the start up has to listen to, to the healthcare system like listen, we cannot do something without being e a compliant or without being integrated with Epic.

Maxwell Murray: Yeah. So you're saying there's a lot of conversations to be had but on both ends, listen carefully and see where you can if you're selling into to the provider space, how can I drive value? You know, what's the ROI for for this engagement? And then the other way is give, give the start up a chance or if they're, you know, headed in the right direction and need pointers, go ahead and, and provide those, those pointers. I just got one more, one more question here. Then what's your long term vision for Predictive Health c are and, and My Health pal, where do you see it going in five years? What we talking about?

Talal Ali Ahmad: Yeah. So I actually we touched a little bit on it earlier. So the hospital, they have a lot of data point which they provide the patient to, to use. For example, if you have heart issue, there's an app for that. If you have a high blood pressure, they have an app to monitor that for you. So for us, the long term vision is we, we will be integrating with wearable technology with the smart implants and also integrate with other digital health technologies. So we be with a platform where we get the data to the clinician and present and use the A I to leverage and come up with a kind of predictive outcome based on all the data points coming from different sources and present to the doctor. So we know to be only focusing on wound by itself, it can be a little bit uphill battles because you can send the patient home today with one app for wound one app, for blood pressure, one app for heart issues. You, you have to give the patient one tool to enter all the information and and present it in one screen to the doctor. And we all plan our goal to be in that position where we collect all the data points from different vendors, different partners and and use the algorithm to present one holistic view about the patient status and condition to the doctor.

Maxwell Murray: That's awesome. You know, in our previous episode with Deb Dullen from Bio Trace It leading the project Pain Trace It. This is a device that attaches sensors to the body and quantifies pain. And so I actually need to connect you to because that's exactly these pain is so critical in a post surgery setting and Predictive Health care and and My Health Pal so critical in a post surgical setting. But these two ideas can't be siloed for clinician. How does that interoperability and elevated user experience take place through collaboration? So don't worry, I'll, I'll set up the introductions.

Talal Ali Ahmad: I mean, especially with because right now, I mean, I could say I'm in a lot of fame but, but, but for you, it could be I can handle that pain. So anything can scientifically measure pain that will be very critical for, for, for doctors.

Maxwell Murray: Yes. And it's the combination of great thinkers like you two and others working together in an interoperability space for patients and clinicians that just streamline this. You think of when you think of the big tech firms, you think of Google and all of its applications and how all those applications work together or you think of Apple or Microsoft, you know, just to name the, the easy ones, there's quite a bit of thought to build an ecosystem and it's a little different because those are contained to brand and they all are competing against each other. But in the healthcare space. Is there a vision where there's this larger ecosystem where things work together and the best ideas integrate to improve your experience.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Yeah, I mean, so in in health care there's we came a long way from 15/20 years ago. I mean, you remember you used to have the paper folders, has all your medical records, somebody has to go through it to know what's going on. Now we're electronically digital and now we have, we can exchange data between hospitals and patient. Look at that data. So we have to think about it like today when you sign up for a platform and they say you can log in with the user name with your email or with the Google Mail or something and then you allow them on data. They wanna get, can we connect your linkedin profile and collect data from you? That's the, the way we want. We should head in the in the digital health, the patient logs in give us access the data so we can collect because medical history is a critical during the after procedure during, during any any treatment plan. Because if the patient forget to say I have a heart issue, I have a high blood pressure. That's gonna be a big difference, especially when there's medication involved. If the, if the doctor ask you, hey, you need to walk every day for half an hour and you have other issues. So, but instead of trying to connect to different system if we can say, hey opt in and give us your data. So we can, we can look at it and use algorithm better to provide better data to the doctor. And I think that's, that's gonna be very powerful in the, in the, in the, in the digital health moving forward.

Maxwell Murray: There's been so many times where my wife is in an appointment with me and interjects and says, oh yeah, he fell down the other day or like brings up something that I just like I wasn't thinking about. So I I really need my data all in one place because I I tend to leave out pieces of the story. I'm sure that doesn't help the clinician.

Talal Ali Ahmad: and, and, and also the technology, it's, it's there when you have, I mean, we're still young, maybe our medical history is that big. But for other people, they have existing condition, the medical history is big. So the technology can go through your medical history quicker than a human being. So there's the A I can go through it and summarize everything for the doctor or for us to look at instead of going through everything else. And that's the key is there's a lot of data out there. We have to make sense out of it and extract what we need in order to provide the right data it out to the doctor to make a decision. And that's, that's data is powerful. We need that.

Maxwell Murray: The powerful. Hey, Tal. I thank you so much. It's been a great conversation. I know you're a very busy person. So I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll let you go. But this was a very good conversation.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Thank you. I appreciate the time, Max. And hopefully we'll see you around.

Maxwell Murray: Yes. Yes. Maybe we'll grab a coffee sometime.

Talal Ali Ahmad: Absolutely.

Maxwell Murray: All right. See you. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Radian podcast. If you found this episode, insightful, we'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or youtube and follow us on LinkedIn or X for more updates and insights.